Lost Respect for a High Rank Guild or Two... - Page 3 - Guild Wars Forums

Doggie Dog · Apr 02, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

As long as the invitees understand the terms of the agreement, I don't have a problem with this.

But to take advantage of someone's naivety shows a distinct lack of honour i.e. you should've known that once I received your 100K I'd kick you after 5 minutes. I've got no time for that behaviour. Go rob your grandmother for 100K next???

The worst thing about this is the constant spamming of these invitation sales by the same people every 5 seconds that I've noticed in RA recently. Worse than Kamadan...

[DE] · Apr 02, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

eF won the celestial tourny and are ranked 3 on the ladder. Your guild is not even ranked Taurucis. I think Conzpi knows a bit more about high-end PvP groups than you do.

Sofonisba · Apr 02, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Hasn't this become a flamefest of PvE vs PvP lol.

Of course the high ranked guild has a right to invite whomever they wish. And a farmer has a right to spend their money however they wish.

GvG/HA guilds work hard at teamwork and metagame. No one disputes that. Then some use their hard work to enjoy prestige... and sell that prestige to PvErs.

Farming IS work, too, though. It's deathly boring (imho). So is selling. Devising solo and team builds for farming is an interesting task as well. In order to buy the pretty shiny items and armor and the PvP guild membership, a person has to do a lot of it. If being rich and buying your way into a prestige cape tickles your fancy, by all means.

It appears to both parties that it's a win-win situation. I just think it's sad, but my opinion means nothing in the long run.

Just like to address the poster who claimed that PvErs don't share the comeraderie that a PvP guild does. I'm afraid that was written out of spite, was it not? It was an inaccurate statement to say the least.

Nkah Sennyt · Apr 02, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

A question to those guilds who are "selling membership" [as I've seen a couple of you in the thread] - do you actually let the buyers play with you guys [ha/ta/gvg etc], or is it just for a pretty cape for awhile? Because, imo, showing off a shiny cape and a chance to play with incredibly skilled pvpers are two different things that could attract two seperate groups of buyers. Just curious.

Also, congrats to eF for winning the CT.

Phenixfire · Apr 02, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

today in kaineng center:

tbh, who cares? i dont. if someone needs to make his money by selling places in his guild - fine. if someone needs to show off by buying one - fine. if someone needs to kick the buyers out again - fine.
their own fault if they take the risk of buying themselves a place in the guild - and i dont care if the ones selling places make their money in an 'unfair way'. its all just a shift of cash - if joe napster or bob 'elite pvper 'yOUr aLL nApZ'' spends the money is of no moment at all.

Billiard · Apr 02, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

I cleaned up some of the trolling here. Please keep things on topic - this is a warning.

Silent Elvin Ranger · Apr 02, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Guilds are guilds. What they do (or want to do) is the reason why it formed.

A guild that farms is there because the people in that guild share the same interest. They like to farm, but not with PUGs, they want to farm with people who they can get to know, share a laugh with, trust, and relate to. They know each other, and more importantly, they know each others skill level. They know who needs support, and who gives support. They grow together.
They do this to gain wealth in a game, and to have fun.

A GvG guild is formed so that many players can band together and test their skill. They put trust in each other, learn about one another, and share a lguh. This group helps each other become better as a team at what they enjoy doing, like farming, and they grow together in hopes to become a high rank.

Guilds are the same. The above guilds are related on so many levels. If one guild looks for fame, another will focus on wealth.

A famous GvG guild, like eF (for example) are a team, a group of allies. People who have similar interests in gaming. If they wish to make some gold on the side to look "shiny", they do it by using the only thing they have worked towards: Fame.

A farming guild, like SMS (for example) Works as a team towards gaining wealth (or "shinyness"), but may also want a bit of fame. If they want fame, they gain it doing what they are good at: Farming. (I feel this needs an example) Example:most know SMS as a guild where a lot of farmers are. Alot of these farmers (like Witte Was, if u dont know him, scan the thread creators of the farming thread) post their builds and get to be known as great farmers.

Farming and GvG guilds are the same. Its like a profession named Wealth (W) and another profession named Fame (F). A farming guild is a W/F, while a GvG guld is a F/W. They are very similar.

Point im trying to prove here is that using what you're best at to gain what you cant get, is perfectly acceptable. A farmer can't post his build on forums, he doesnt get fame...which he wants, but cant get any other way. A GvGer wants some wealth, but can't get a party to farm with cuz he is not good at it (cuz he specializes in PvP)...so he uses whats available to him to gain wealth. What does he have? Fame. Sell a bit of reputation to other, less talented PvPers.

It is a win,win situation. A farmer with plenty of gold wants some fame, buy a bit of fame. A GvGer with a great reputation wants some gold, sell some fame.

Its supply and demand. We help each other.

A guild has a right to use what they have available to them to get what they want.

~Silent

mcsumo · Apr 02, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by conzpi

I have sold quite a few memberships in eF and made some nice money for shiny items (tormented). I would have to play endless hours of HA or PvE to earn them the normal way - so why can't I take them sort of as a GVG reward for earning the cape with SKILL, not farming. And to idiots who keep calling me a scammer: not a single member who paid has been kicked from the guild. Besides for the duration of playoffs because we didn't want to get spies in our guildhall. But they are reinvited now.

And yea I dont see why it is so bad to have some PvE players with shiny cape somewhere. They want something to spend their money on - something rare and a cape is like that and we want money. Both sides are happy. No one has the right to say that it's wrong.

Really growing tired of people who kill trolls in a pvp game calling me scammer and nub because I do fair deals without any kind of scam involved : (

This reply (especially bold text) sums up everything that is wrong about both this practice and the fools on both sides who do it.

This is NOT a pvp game. It is marketed to appeal to PVE players just as much as PVP. A clear example of what somebody called snobbishness earlier....although I just call it being a bloody idiot

. I bought the game for PVE, I wasn't even aware of the PVP side for a long time. I have built up a lot of money by just playing, with 10 different characters through 3 different campaigns. Not just killing trolls. Just like I am sure you didn't just copy other peoples builds as I have seen suggested.

Also the reason that trim is rare and admired is the way you are meant to get it. You have cheapened one of the highest honours worth striving for. I have just discovered the joys of PVP. I was thinking I would like to practice and get good then one day get such an amazing honour for my guild! But now I don't give a ---- about GvG, because you have proven yourselves to have the same mentality as ebay morons. And all my hard work to maybe one day get that trim would not be recognised....instead people would wonder how much it cost me.

When I voiced my opinion in Temple of Balth earlier, the seller said that Anet have said it is fine. If that is the case GG Anet...you are encouraging people to give many, yet another reason to lose interest in this game.

Oh and he actually likened it to selling a torment shield etc. For the winners of a GvG tournament not to be able to see the difference, really makes me despair for the state and future of this game that I still love...... although it is getting harder to remember why.

max gladius · Apr 02, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

mcsumo

you had some very good points there, at first i thought u were tolling on it as others were earlier, but u hit it dead on the head.... glad to see there r others on here who do understand what i am talking about....

Its like they r renting out a gold metal from the Olympics....

vandree · Apr 02, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

wow eF and simular guilds selling invites are playing with fire. This has the potiental to blow up in thier face. All it takes is one clown running around KC - LA - DoA - HA or even RA to sully their reputation. And imagine the unneeded guild drama this could create LOL. As it is selling invites to anybody and everyone that has an extra 100k a month does cheapen their hard earned cape in the eyes of some of the pve and pvp population. But hey when you need GP you need GP what does it hurt by pimping out your cape? IMO if you have a guild that can sell its cape on the street corner in Cantha why not sell it? Let everyone wear gold capes IMO (atleast those that win them, play as an alternate for them, or can afford them.)

congrats to eF for the solid victories over EW btw.. you guys earned your trim to be sure

... as to the rest of your members congrats on the solid investment of your 100k a month the capes look nice

my next question is will you guys be allowing your investors a say on what the capes logo is? I mean they are spending 100k a month for a cape after all.

good hunting

Shanaeri Rynale · Apr 02, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

If I remember rightly, the selling of spots in a guild goes way way way back. I think cissy boys tried to sell a spot or 2 in their guild on ebay, back in May/June 2005, then as soon as the first tournament ended spots in high rank guilds were being sold also. In short it's not a new thing.

Personally I think it's in a grey area. On one side, running a top GvG Guild is an expensive affair. Just 1 tournament round can cost 3 sigils for a hall change. In short the money has to come from somewhere and so long as both parties are told what the deal is, then it's not really a scam as people can spend or do with their money what they like.

The negative side is that it does somehow cheapen the achievements somehow, like selling shares in the world cup.

In my limited exposure to PvP I feel that True Respect for a set of players is not because of the color cape they wear, but how they play the game. I have seen and heard of some fantastic games and sportsmanship, and I know both Puff and eF have exemplified both.

On a lighter note. It seems as tho Puff are going the Guild Wars route. Pay once and play for as long as you like, while eF are going the Wow way. with a monthly free.

Divineshadows · Apr 02, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

On a lighter note. It seems as tho Puff are going the Guild Wars route. Pay once and play for as long as you like, while eF are going the Wow way. with a monthly free.

Gold capes are permantent. Silver and bronze capes melt away.

Shanaeri Rynale · Apr 02, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Gold capes are permantent. Silver and bronze capes melt away.

Same might be said of Wow and GW (hides)

It would be interesting to see AN's take on the selling of Guild spots for cape'd Guilds. I have a feeling that this practice may well become the de-facto practice for successful guilds in the future. After all several 100K income per 'original' guild member has the potential to be a nice source of revenue.

I had a look in the Eula and it did'nt mention anything about it, except selliing slots guilds on ebay(with no reference or inference to the guild of that name ofc ), so I guess some kinda official steer may be in order.

Ascendant · Apr 03, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

100k per invite for a golden trim? I'm sorry but since when can you put a price tag on honor and glory?

vandree · Apr 03, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascendant

100k per invite for a golden trim? I'm sorry but since when can you put a price tag on honor and glory?

Apparently when you win one

conzpi · Apr 03, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofonisba

Hasn't this become a flamefest of PvE vs PvP lol.

Of course the high ranked guild has a right to invite whomever they wish. And a farmer has a right to spend their money however they wish.

GvG/HA guilds work hard at teamwork and metagame. No one disputes that. Then some use their hard work to enjoy prestige... and sell that prestige to PvErs.

Farming IS work, too, though. It's deathly boring (imho). So is selling. Devising solo and team builds for farming is an interesting task as well. In order to buy the pretty shiny items and armor and the PvP guild membership, a person has to do a lot of it. If being rich and buying your way into a prestige cape tickles your fancy, by all means.

It appears to both parties that it's a win-win situation. I just think it's sad, but my opinion means nothing in the long run.

Just like to address the poster who claimed that PvErs don't share the comeraderie that a PvP guild does. I'm afraid that was written out of spite, was it not? It was an inaccurate statement to say the least.

I'd like to quote this post for truth, and highlight that by no means I dont mean to say that PvE guilds don't share the comradery(sp?) just like pvp guilds do. What I only meant was to the guy claiming that PVP is all about self gain, backstab and whatever to point him completely wrong.

conzpi · Apr 03, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

This reply (especially bold text) sums up everything that is wrong about both this practice and the fools on both sides who do it.

This is NOT a pvp game. It is marketed to appeal to PVE players just as much as PVP. A clear example of what somebody called snobbishness earlier....although I just call it being a bloody idiot

. I bought the game for PVE, I wasn't even aware of the PVP side for a long time. I have built up a lot of money by just playing, with 10 different characters through 3 different campaigns. Not just killing trolls. Just like I am sure you didn't just copy other peoples builds as I have seen suggested.

Also the reason that trim is rare and admired is the way you are meant to get it. You have cheapened one of the highest honours worth striving for. I have just discovered the joys of PVP. I was thinking I would like to practice and get good then one day get such an amazing honour for my guild! But now I don't give a ---- about GvG, because you have proven yourselves to have the same mentality as ebay morons. And all my hard work to maybe one day get that trim would not be recognised....instead people would wonder how much it cost me.

When I voiced my opinion in Temple of Balth earlier, the seller said that Anet have said it is fine. If that is the case GG Anet...you are encouraging people to give many, yet another reason to lose interest in this game.

Oh and he actually likened it to selling a torment shield etc. For the winners of a GvG tournament not to be able to see the difference, really makes me despair for the state and future of this game that I still love...... although it is getting harder to remember why.

Badly worded insult from me and I regret it because it doesn't show what I really meant - insult the poster only. My post now makes it seem that I think about all PvE:rs like that which is not true.

And argh.... We feel that the goldcape is still an honor - just like the rest of the guilds that have it. Now if ~50 random guys from hundreds of thousands have the cape - so what? It makes the sellers (us) very happy because we sort of think it as we get shiny items from pvp:ing instead of having to farm them in pve. And we believe that everyone in the PVP scene still know who the original core members / gvg squad of eF is. If they dont - we don't care what they think about the guild selling invites. (not that we care even if they dont know the squad : )

ayame ftw · Apr 03, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

what bothers me more then guilds selling capes is the general attitude of a lot of players out there.
the fact that u only want to play for the rewards (emotes, capes, weapons,...) is very sad if u ask me. I always compare this attitude with the attitude of a dog, he will rollover IF he get a cookie... Sure the rewards are a nice bonus, but should not be the main incentive to PvP (or even Pve).
U don???t tell me that farming gold, farming the ladder with a gimmick build is fun???its boring and repetitive. The process that leads to the ???reward??? are not satisfying in any sense.
Sure u can get the so-called ???rewards??? but the process to get there is not ???rewarding???.

What u should PvP for is to actually enjoy your self in the matches u play and prepare for. Like making up strategies and stretching your self to the limits of your capabilities to beat another guild.

Don???t misunderstand me I don???t have anything against people who farm, a person that farms his own ecto???s / shards to get his fow armor is doing it for the right reasons. But people that just hunt trolls for a year long and then buy every single ecto???well I think u get the picture.

The general thought is:
Its not reward that matters, its who u get there.

conzpi · Apr 03, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

what bothers me more then guilds selling capes is the general attitude of a lot of players out there.
the fact that u only want to play for the rewards (emotes, capes, weapons,...) is very sad if u ask me. I always compare this attitude with the attitude of a dog, he will rollover IF he get a cookie... Sure the rewards are a nice bonus, but should not be the main incentive to PvP (or even Pve).
U don???t tell me that farming gold, farming the ladder with a gimmick build is fun???its boring and repetitive. The process that leads to the ???reward??? are not satisfying in any sense.
Sure u can get the so-called ???rewards??? but the process to get there is not ???rewarding???.

What u should PvP for is to actually enjoy your self in the matches u play and prepare for. Like making up strategies and stretching your self to the limits of your capabilities to beat another guild.

Don???t misunderstand me I don???t have anything against people who farm, a person that farms his own ecto???s / shards to get his fow armor is doing it for the right reasons. But people that just hunt trolls for a year long and then buy every single ecto???well I think u get the picture.

The general thought is:
Its not reward that matters, its who u get there.

If we wanted jsut the reward, we wouldn't spend countless of hours playing, practicing and planning together. We would do some real life work, since the graphics card isn't more then ~3-4 days of regular work. I really don't need to justify myself but I think it's good for the PvE players to know too - PVP is just like any team competition in real life.

Div · Apr 03, 2007, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by vandree

wow eF and simular guilds selling invites are playing with fire. This has the potiental to blow up in thier face. All it takes is one clown running around KC - LA - DoA - HA or even RA to sully their reputation. And imagine the unneeded guild drama this could create LOL. As it is selling invites to anybody and everyone that has an extra 100k a month does cheapen their hard earned cape in the eyes of some of the pve and pvp population. But hey when you need GP you need GP what does it hurt by pimping out your cape? IMO if you have a guild that can sell its cape on the street corner in Cantha why not sell it? Let everyone wear gold capes IMO (atleast those that win them, play as an alternate for them, or can afford them.)

I don't see how a clown running around will destroy their reputation. The reputation of the core players will always be fairly good and recognized as one of the best GW players, and the reputation of having that cape is virtually nonexistent to the people that know you can buy the cape trims. All this does it hurt the overall community with cape trims, since it's less likely to be respected because of the fact that most people who aren't up to date on which guilds are selling invites are now suspicious whether or not you bought the trim.

Apr 02, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08	#47
Silent Elvin Ranger Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada	Guilds are guilds. What they do (or want to do) is the reason why it formed. A guild that farms is there because the people in that guild share the same interest. They like to farm, but not with PUGs, they want to farm with people who they can get to know, share a laugh with, trust, and relate to. They know each other, and more importantly, they know each others skill level. They know who needs support, and who gives support. They grow together. They do this to gain wealth in a game, and to have fun. A GvG guild is formed so that many players can band together and test their skill. They put trust in each other, learn about one another, and share a lguh. This group helps each other become better as a team at what they enjoy doing, like farming, and they grow together in hopes to become a high rank. Guilds are the same. The above guilds are related on so many levels. If one guild looks for fame, another will focus on wealth. A famous GvG guild, like eF (for example) are a team, a group of allies. People who have similar interests in gaming. If they wish to make some gold on the side to look "shiny", they do it by using the only thing they have worked towards: Fame. A farming guild, like SMS (for example) Works as a team towards gaining wealth (or "shinyness"), but may also want a bit of fame. If they want fame, they gain it doing what they are good at: Farming. (I feel this needs an example) Example:most know SMS as a guild where a lot of farmers are. Alot of these farmers (like Witte Was, if u dont know him, scan the thread creators of the farming thread) post their builds and get to be known as great farmers. Farming and GvG guilds are the same. Its like a profession named Wealth (W) and another profession named Fame (F). A farming guild is a W/F, while a GvG guld is a F/W. They are very similar. Point im trying to prove here is that using what you're best at to gain what you cant get, is perfectly acceptable. A farmer can't post his build on forums, he doesnt get fame...which he wants, but cant get any other way. A GvGer wants some wealth, but can't get a party to farm with cuz he is not good at it (cuz he specializes in PvP)...so he uses whats available to him to gain wealth. What does he have? Fame. Sell a bit of reputation to other, less talented PvPers. It is a win,win situation. A farmer with plenty of gold wants some fame, buy a bit of fame. A GvGer with a great reputation wants some gold, sell some fame. Its supply and demand. We help each other. A guild has a right to use what they have available to them to get what they want. ~Silent Last edited by Silent Elvin Ranger; Apr 02, 2007 at 09:11 PM // 21:11..

Apr 02, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43	#50
vandree Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2006 Guild: dyed black[db]	wow eF and simular guilds selling invites are playing with fire. This has the potiental to blow up in thier face. All it takes is one clown running around KC - LA - DoA - HA or even RA to sully their reputation. And imagine the unneeded guild drama this could create LOL. As it is selling invites to anybody and everyone that has an extra 100k a month does cheapen their hard earned cape in the eyes of some of the pve and pvp population. But hey when you need GP you need GP what does it hurt by pimping out your cape? IMO if you have a guild that can sell its cape on the street corner in Cantha why not sell it? Let everyone wear gold capes IMO (atleast those that win them, play as an alternate for them, or can afford them.) congrats to eF for the solid victories over EW btw.. you guys earned your trim to be sure ... as to the rest of your members congrats on the solid investment of your 100k a month the capes look nice my next question is will you guys be allowing your investors a say on what the capes logo is? I mean they are spending 100k a month for a cape after all. good hunting Last edited by vandree; Apr 02, 2007 at 10:50 PM // 22:50..

Apr 02, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00	#51
Shanaeri Rynale Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: DVDF(Forums) Profession: Me/N	If I remember rightly, the selling of spots in a guild goes way way way back. I think cissy boys tried to sell a spot or 2 in their guild on ebay, back in May/June 2005, then as soon as the first tournament ended spots in high rank guilds were being sold also. In short it's not a new thing. Personally I think it's in a grey area. On one side, running a top GvG Guild is an expensive affair. Just 1 tournament round can cost 3 sigils for a hall change. In short the money has to come from somewhere and so long as both parties are told what the deal is, then it's not really a scam as people can spend or do with their money what they like. The negative side is that it does somehow cheapen the achievements somehow, like selling shares in the world cup. In my limited exposure to PvP I feel that True Respect for a set of players is not because of the color cape they wear, but how they play the game. I have seen and heard of some fantastic games and sportsmanship, and I know both Puff and eF have exemplified both. On a lighter note. It seems as tho Puff are going the Guild Wars route. Pay once and play for as long as you like, while eF are going the Wow way. with a monthly free. Last edited by Shanaeri Rynale; Apr 02, 2007 at 11:06 PM // 23:06..

Apr 02, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06	#41
Doggie Dog Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Euro servers Guild: The Monstrous Fangs [fang] Profession: Mo/Me	As long as the invitees understand the terms of the agreement, I don't have a problem with this. But to take advantage of someone's naivety shows a distinct lack of honour i.e. you should've known that once I received your 100K I'd kick you after 5 minutes. I've got no time for that behaviour. Go rob your grandmother for 100K next??? The worst thing about this is the constant spamming of these invitation sales by the same people every 5 seconds that I've noticed in RA recently. Worse than Kamadan...

Apr 02, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08	#42
[DE] Hugs and Kisses Join Date: Oct 2005 Guild: Scars Meadows	eF won the celestial tourny and are ranked 3 on the ladder. Your guild is not even ranked Taurucis. I think Conzpi knows a bit more about high-end PvP groups than you do.

Apr 02, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05	#43
Sofonisba Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Guild: The Black Hand Gang [BHG] and The Black Helm Gang [BHeG]	Hasn't this become a flamefest of PvE vs PvP lol. Of course the high ranked guild has a right to invite whomever they wish. And a farmer has a right to spend their money however they wish. GvG/HA guilds work hard at teamwork and metagame. No one disputes that. Then some use their hard work to enjoy prestige... and sell that prestige to PvErs. Farming IS work, too, though. It's deathly boring (imho). So is selling. Devising solo and team builds for farming is an interesting task as well. In order to buy the pretty shiny items and armor and the PvP guild membership, a person has to do a lot of it. If being rich and buying your way into a prestige cape tickles your fancy, by all means. It appears to both parties that it's a win-win situation. I just think it's sad, but my opinion means nothing in the long run. Just like to address the poster who claimed that PvErs don't share the comeraderie that a PvP guild does. I'm afraid that was written out of spite, was it not? It was an inaccurate statement to say the least.

Apr 02, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43	#44
Nkah Sennyt Awaken from hiatus. Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Riding the spiral. Guild: No Fun Allowed [Vdya]	A question to those guilds who are "selling membership" [as I've seen a couple of you in the thread] - do you actually let the buyers play with you guys [ha/ta/gvg etc], or is it just for a pretty cape for awhile? Because, imo, showing off a shiny cape and a chance to play with incredibly skilled pvpers are two different things that could attract two seperate groups of buyers. Just curious. Also, congrats to eF for winning the CT.

Apr 02, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20	#45
Phenixfire Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2006 Guild: Malice Dedication Ambition [MAD] Profession: Mo/	today in kaineng center: tbh, who cares? i dont. if someone needs to make his money by selling places in his guild - fine. if someone needs to show off by buying one - fine. if someone needs to kick the buyers out again - fine. their own fault if they take the risk of buying themselves a place in the guild - and i dont care if the ones selling places make their money in an 'unfair way'. its all just a shift of cash - if joe napster or bob 'elite pvper 'yOUr aLL nApZ'' spends the money is of no moment at all.

Apr 02, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55	#46
Billiard Doctor of Philosophy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pacific Northwest Guild: Team Love [kiSu] www.teamlove.us	I cleaned up some of the trolling here. Please keep things on topic - this is a warning.

Apr 02, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33	#49
max gladius Yep, really is me... Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: My House Guild: L33t	mcsumo you had some very good points there, at first i thought u were tolling on it as others were earlier, but u hit it dead on the head.... glad to see there r others on here who do understand what i am talking about.... Its like they r renting out a gold metal from the Olympics....

Apr 03, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21	#54
Ascendant Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: In a hole Guild: Siege Turtles [ST] Profession: Mo/E	100k per invite for a golden trim? I'm sorry but since when can you put a price tag on honor and glory?

Apr 03, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40	#58
ayame ftw Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgium Guild: Forgot the Ghostlyyyyy Profession: R/	what bothers me more then guilds selling capes is the general attitude of a lot of players out there. the fact that u only want to play for the rewards (emotes, capes, weapons,...) is very sad if u ask me. I always compare this attitude with the attitude of a dog, he will rollover IF he get a cookie... Sure the rewards are a nice bonus, but should not be the main incentive to PvP (or even Pve). U don???t tell me that farming gold, farming the ladder with a gimmick build is fun???its boring and repetitive. The process that leads to the ???reward??? are not satisfying in any sense. Sure u can get the so-called ???rewards??? but the process to get there is not ???rewarding???. What u should PvP for is to actually enjoy your self in the matches u play and prepare for. Like making up strategies and stretching your self to the limits of your capabilities to beat another guild. Don???t misunderstand me I don???t have anything against people who farm, a person that farms his own ecto???s / shards to get his fow armor is doing it for the right reasons. But people that just hunt trolls for a year long and then buy every single ecto???well I think u get the picture. The general thought is: Its not reward that matters, its who u get there.